Thursday, June 19, 2014

The Very Nature of God is Love

Volumes have been written about the characteristics of God, but when it is distilled to the most basic categories, He is love (1 John 4:8), life (Jeremiah 10:10; Revelation 22:1), and holiness (Psalms 99:9). And in reality, His life and holiness are based upon and are an expression of His love: love gives, so He gives life; love desires the best, so holiness proceeds from Him.
Love is not something he chooses to do or give. It is the very essence of who He is. He doesn't just love-He is love (1 John 4:16). It motivates His every action, directs His activities, and reflects His desires (1 John 4:10). Love is the greatest and purest essence of who a person is and its proper expression brings fulfillment.
However, God's love is not like the love expressed by many in our culture today: a love of convenience and ego. That is, "I will love you as long as you add value to my life and please me. When that ceases, so does my love for you." For many, love is conditional. The conditions may be different depending upon the relationship, but there are still conditions to be met in order to "earn" our love.
William Bennett, former Secretary of Education and author of The Book of Virtues: A Treasury of Great Moral Stories(1993), once said that he attended a wedding where the vows had been changed to reflect this love of convenience. He decided to send a gift to the couple that reflected their commitment to the marriage-a package of paper plates! He said he figured the package would last as long as the marriage.
This attitude stands in stark contrast to God's unconditional love, which never fails (Psalms 52:8), endures forever (Psalms 106:1), is uncalculating (Proverbs 30:5), and not motivated by personal gain (1 John 3:16). Unconditional love does not mean that God loves everything we do, but rather His love is so intense that He loves every sinner, no matter how vile and despicable he or she may be in the eyes of humanity, so much that He provides a way for them to find love, life, and holiness (John 3:16). "Intense love does not measure, it just gives" (Mother Teresa).
The Focus of God's Love is Redemption
Daily, Adam and Eve walked with God, until the desire for pleasure overcame their love for God (see Genesis 3). This break in the relationship required redemption.
God's love (and our own!) is not an abstract ideal, but a concrete reality that finds expression. Love that is not expressed through the giving of self, practical action and sacrifice is not love. Love must meet the emotional, physical, and spiritual needs of those loved. It is costly, brings vulnerability, and seeks the person's highest good (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).
God's unconditional and intense love for fallen humanity motivated the plan of salvation (Revelation 1:5). Simply, salvation is God making us whole or complete. It is a healing of the soul, bringing us back to the state of Adam when God breathed life into him and made him a living soul. Separation from God, caused by sin, is separation from life. A person might have biological life, but not the quality of life God envisions for us.
God's love brings cleansing, freedom, and wholeness. True love is liberating, not restrictive. This does not give us a license to sin, but the freedom to serve God completely, motivated by love, and empowered by the Spirit.
God's love motivates His compassion and mercy (love in action). His love brings transformation. Usually at baptism, the minister will quote from Matthew 28:19 and baptize the person "in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." We clap, raise our hands, and miss the truth of the event. It is more than a public expression of one's faith. At baptism, we are baptized (immersed) into the very character of the Father (love), the character of the Son (grace), and the character of the Holy Spirit (fellowship; see2 Corinthians 13:13).
Salvation is based on God's fervent love and mercy, not our worthiness (Titus 3:4-5). One response (in the image of Jesus Christ's offering on the Cross) is that we offer ourselves as living sacrifices to God (Rom 12:1).
The Goal of God's Love is Relationship
Love requires relationship, as love is a dynamic force or presence that naturally seeks expression. Simply put, love loves! And in order to do that there must be an object of that love or it is incomplete.
God's love is revealed in that He created us in His own image (a position of responsibility before God) and likeness (moral freedom; Genesis 1:26-27; Job 33:4). Part of that image/likeness is freedom of choice. We can choose to accept and embrace God's love or we can choose to ignore or reject it. We were formed from dust, but because of God's great love for us, we received the breath of God, with its intrinsic and inherent life. This life gives us the capacity and desire to be in relationship (understanding; self-awareness; communicative; ability to have fellowship) and to love in return. To live in God is to live in love (1 John 4:16).
Our relationship with God is an intimate one. There is a sacred knowledge and expression that takes place. To know Him intimately is to open the door for revelation and fulfillment. It brings change or transformation-change of essence, expression, behavior, desires, identity, and security. The bond is so strong that God says a nursing mother may abandon her child, but He will never abandon us (Isaiah 49:15-16). He becomes the ultimate Father!
When we reflect upon the intensity of our relationship with God, self-doubt often arises. Can we keep our end of the bargain? Of great comfort (and a pressing challenge) is the thought that our relationship with God is not the sum of our activity directed toward God, but the intensity of our relationship with God as expressed through our devotion to him, our obedience to his wishes, and our attitudes toward his will and best desires for us. He loved us first, enabling us to respond properly to His love (1 John 4:10-11). And His love (and ability) never fails.
A young student asked Karl Barth to share the most significant theological truth he had discovered in all of his years of study. Barth, one of the most prolific theologians of the 20th century, wrote approximately sixty volumes of commentaries and theological studies. This brilliant man that many call the most important theologian of modern times thought for a moment, smiled, and said, "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so."
Nothing-absolutely nothing-can separate us from God's love (Romans 8:35-39)!

7 Ways God Loves Us



1) God loves us with Atoning love.
"God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." (Jhn 3:16-17)
God's love for us is what motivated Him to send Christ into the world to save us. Christ paid for our sins, which had separated us from Him. This sacrifice not only brings us peace with God, it also brings us into a personal, loving relationship with Him. (Rom 5:1-5)
God's atoning love through Christ is the source of all our spiritual blessings.
2) God loves us with Calling love.
"You are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." (1 Pet 2:9)
Another way God shows His love for us is by calling us out of the darkness of sin and into the light of fellowship with Him.
Even more, because God has called us to Himself, He promises to protect that relationship (Jhn 10:28) and never leave or forsake us (Heb 13:5, 1 Thes 5:23-25)
God's calling love is a promise to always be with us.
3) God loves us with Redeeming love.
"God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Rom 8:3-4)
Because of our sinful nature, we have no power to fulfill God's law. But God's love is shown through Christ who redeemed, or paid, the price we owed for our rebellion. (Gal 3:13)
God's redeeming love frees us from guilt and fear.
4) God loves us with Justifying love.
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith." (Rom 3:23-25)
God's love is shown by justifying us (or declaring us innocent) by grace through faith in Christ. Christ is treated as if he were the sinner, and the sinner is treated as if he were the righteous one. God now sees us through Christ's righteousness instead of through our sin.
God's justifying love allows us to stand accepted before Him.
5) God loves us with Adopting love.
"For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"" (Rom 8:15)
God shows His love for us by not only forgiving us of our sins, but by going even further and bringing us into His family. He has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints. (Col 1:12) This inheritance includes salvation, strength, hope, peace, comfort, providence, fellowship and so much more!
God's adopting love allows us to call Him "Father".
6) God loves us with Sanctifying love.
"We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)
Still another way God also shows His love is by sanctifying, or setting us apart, for His purpose. We're sanctified in two ways: positionally and progressively.
We're sanctified "positionally" when we come to Christ. In the Old Testament the priests would continually make sacrifices because they never permanently paid for sin. But Christ offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice and has paid for our sins once and for all. So we've sanctified, or set apart, to obtain salvation through Christ.
We're also sanctified "progressively" throughout our Christian lives. Progressive sanctification isn't about our salvation - we're saved by grace and not by works (Eph 2:8-9) - it's about how we live after we've been saved.
Progressive sanctification is the process of dying to sin and living for Christ by becoming more like Him. It's about producing the fruits of the Spirit as opposed to producing the fruits of the flesh. (Gal 5:19-23)
God's sanctifying love sets us apart for His special plans.
7) God loves us with Glorifying love.
"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:1-2)
Finally, God shows His love by glorifying us. Throughout our lives we'll wrestle with sin, but we're promised that the good work God begins in us will be completed. (Phil 1:6) When we go to be with the Lord our sinful nature will be left behind and we'll like Him, and with Him, forever.
God's glorifying love is the ultimate destination for Christians.

Sources
Biblestudyplanet.com
Biblestudytools.com

Sunday, June 15, 2014

Conflict Among Christians

Conflict Among Christians:

We will begin with our traditional opening Youtube video:


I was talking last night to a member of the Church I currently attend about some things. He was telling me about some of the Church's history, and how the Church had lost a few dozen members when one of the Associate Pastors played divide and conquer with the Congregation. He sent out e-mails to just the people who he thought he could trust to not tip off the Lead Pastor about his plan to draw away members after himself. Division is [i]not[/i] a Fruit of the Spirit.

A similar thing happened during the Apostle Paul's ministry. As he was about to leave Ephesus to go to Jerusalem, he called the elders of the Church together to bid them farewell. We read his farewell to them beginning in Acts 20:28  Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

Of this Matthew Henry writes, in part: “If the Holy Ghost has made ministers overseers of the flock, that is, shepherds, they must be true to their trust. Let them consider their Master's concern for the flock committed to their charge...”

But it is not just the leadership of the Church that must be concerned with this. Every member must make it his or her personal responsibility to preserve and protect the Body of Christ, and every member of that Body.

What was the sign, the sign that Jesus said would identify who his true followers were? Was it how much Greek or Hebrew they knew? How much of the Bible they could quote, blindfolded? Perhaps it was how many Church Committees they serve on, or how many solos they sang with the choir?

No... it's much more simple than the above. But it is also much more difficult than the above. Jesus said in John 13:35: “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”

There are two Greek words that were translated in to English as “love.” One is the Greek word, philèo, which Strong's Concordance defines as: “to be a friend to (fond of (an individual or an object)), i.e. have affection for (denoting personal attachment, as a matter of sentiment or feeling;)

The other Greek word is agape`. Agape` In Paul's list in Galatians 5, of the God-given Fruit of the Spirit, love (agape`) is listed as the first Fruit. It is not something just to comes to us. Agape` love has One Source, and that Source is God. It outstrips, outlasts, outperforms, and supersedes any human-level emotion. Agape` is translated into English as “charity” in the following verses written by the Apostle Paul. It clearly rises far above the “friendship or fondness” level of love. Let's read how it differs from human filèo,  beginning in 1 Corinthians 13:1  ¶Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4  ¶Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6  Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8  ¶Charity never faileth:

Loving one another as Jesus said we should, is not possible to fulfill with just human emotions. If anything, human emotions are volatile, unpredictable, usually vengeful and self-serving. That is not agape` love. But Jesus said agape` love would be the identifying sign to men, of true discipleship. More than that, Jesus actually presented this identifying sign as a prerequisite to our loving and worshiping God in a way He would find acceptable. Let's notice His words, very early in His sermon on the Mount, beginning in Matthew 5:23: Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24  Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.”

Matthew Henry comments: “We ought carefully to preserve Christian love and peace with all our brethren; and if at any time there is a quarrel, we should confess our fault, humble ourselves to our brother, making or offering satisfaction for wrong done in word or deed: and we should do this quickly; because, till this is done, we are unfit for communion with God in holy ordinances. And when we are preparing for any religious exercises, it is good for us to make that an occasion of serious reflection and self-examination. What is here said is very applicable to our being reconciled to God through Christ. While we are alive, we are in the way to his judgement-seat; after death, it will be too late. When we consider the importance of the case, and the uncertainty of life, how needful it is to seek peace with God, without delay!”

Worshiping God inextricably involves our seeking peace with fellow believers, in Jesus words, as a prerequisite. This is not always possible when someone who has been offended by a real or imagined offense, will not forgive you. But that is not your problem if you attempt to apologize and make things right. A person refusing to forgive you will have to answer to God about their unforgiveness. Where each of us in concerned, the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 12:18: “If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.”

In another part of the Book of Matthew, Jesus spoke again about how to address and resolve conflict with a fellow believer: We read beginning in Matthew 18:15: “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”

Matthew Henry comments: “If a professed Christian is wronged by another, he ought not to complain of it to others, as is often done merely upon report, but to go to the offender privately, state the matter kindly, and show him his conduct. This would generally have all the desired effect with a true Christian, and the parties would be reconciled. The principles of these rules may be practised every where, and under all circumstances, though they are too much neglected by all. But how few try the method which Christ has expressly enjoined to all his disciples! In all our proceedings we should seek direction in prayer; we cannot too highly prize the promises of God. Wherever and whenever we meet in the name of Christ, we should consider him as present in the midst of us.”

But let's look at this, again: There are some ancient manuscripts that omit the two words “against thee,” and have Christ saying: “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass... go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” In the verse written that way, the trespass need not have been committed [i]against[/i] the person witnessing it.

Notice Paul's words for that situation in Galatians 6:1  ¶Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

But why did Paul include a warning about being tempted?  What temptation is there in discovering a fault or a sin in a brother or sister? And who, while we're on the subject, is the [i]source[/i] of temptation? The temptation is to react to such a discovery in an ungodly manner, with unthinking and irrational human emotions, and not the love of God that only He can provide. If you become aware of a brother or sister sinning in some capacity, God would have you react by going [u]to that person[/u], [b]alone[/b], and bring it to his or her attention, and [u]only[/u]  to his or her attention. To do so is not a Biblical suggestion, it is a Command. And it also must be kept a matter of strict privacy between the two of you. A true follower of Christ  will not seize it as an opportunity to light up the phone lines, or text lines, or chat room lines, or e-mail lines, to report to other believers or members, or to anybody else what their brother or sister did or said, to poison their reputation.

Solomon wrote in Proverbs 26:20: “Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.”

To repeat a real or imagined fault or a sin of a brother is a very serious matter to God. We read in Proverbs 6, seven activities that are abominations that God hates are listed: Four of the seven are characterisitic of talebearers: A proud look, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Reacting to offenses is a test we will all face at some time or another. Jesus said in Luke 17:1: “It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!”

And when we are faced with them, God commands us to act and react according to His Guidelines. But to do that, you have to know what those Guidelines are. If you don't actually read the Bible, and know what God requires, or which reactions that seem good to us God hates, then you cannot act and react within those prescribed Guidelines. But too many of us [b]do not read[/b] Scripture, and, too often, we respond with emotional knee-jerk reactions  to certain circumstances in ways that may seem right and justified to us, but oppose God's Laws. Talebearing and spreading gossip are ungodly emotional reactions that do no good to anyone. Whispering is an abomination to God! God hates backbiting! These reactions are divisive, and are not how God would have us respond to the discovery of sin in a brother or sister in Christ. As Solomon said in Proverbs 14:12: “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” We need to be able to route out behavior that [i]seems right[/i] to us, and behavior that God hates. We need to follow His Ways, and [u]only[/u] His Ways!

In either case, if we witness a brother or sister in Christ commit a sin in word or in deed, we have, as witnesses, several  commands from God as to how to react. [i]If it is directed against us[/i], accidentally or intentionally, we are commanded to forgive that  individual. Jesus said in Matthew 5:44: “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."
 
Becoming the town crier regarding their sin, and gossiping about it behind their backs to anyone else, is NOT what Jesus said to do! How can talebearing be a “good” reaction when God calls it an “abomination” to Him? How can whispering about what a brother or sister did wrong be “blessing them,” when God said He hates when someone “soweth discord among brethren”?

Consider: In [u]both[/u] cases, if the sin committed is or is not against us personally, it is definitely against the one who committed it. Whatever the sin was, it must be repented of! For that to happen, it must be brought to the attention of the sinner, and NO ONE ELSE! Notice Paul's words to Timothy as he spoke about the obligation we each have to go to the sinner, and [i]how[/i] to approach him or her: We read in 2 Timothy 2:24: “And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25  In meekness instructing those that [u]oppose themselves[/u]; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will” (emphasis added).

In another area of Christian conflict, the Apostle Paul responded to the situation where brothers and sisters in Christ were taking each other to court, in order to get what they thought was rightfully theirs: Paul issued them a scathing rebuke beginning in 1 Corinthians 6:5  I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6  But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7  Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8  Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.”

On another subject, where offenses are concerned, ministers and Bible teachers are not magically exempt from sin. No honest minister or Bible teacher would ever say that  he or she does not or cannot or will not sin.  Speaking for myself, I have said on many occasions that when I present these Discussions, I do not present them from the perspective of not needing to apply to my own life the things I am teaching. Paul said in Romans 2:21: “Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself?” My answer is is an unequivocal and enthusiastic “Yes!”  I need every word of the things I teach you.

We all sin every day. As John wrote in  1 John 1:10: “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” We may not sin the same sins, but the bottom line is, that all sin brings with it a death penalty. That means we are all tied for last place. But being a Bible teacher holds me, in God's eyes, to a stricter standard. James writes the very sobering words to those who teach the Word of God, in James 3:1  ¶My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.”

I take this responsibility very serious. But I also need you to know that I am not perfect, nor have I ever pretended to be, claimed to be, or even implied to be. I get things wrong because I am human, but I do not willfully or intentionally offend or mislead. If you think I have said something wrong, I invite, no... I urge you, and Christ commands you to come to me, and me alone, and tell me what I did or said. That is the Bible's prescription for correcting a fellow-believer who has done something offensive.

If a brother or sister in Christ, says or does something that was, or appeared to be inappropriate or ungodly, becoming a gossip, or a talebearer or a whisperer in response to that situation is condemned in both the Old and New Testament. Solomon wrote in Proverbs 16:28: “A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.” Such activity will be answerable to God. If you think this is a minor matter with God, let's take a look at the sins that Paul lists, in which he includes whispering. Look at the sins that surround “whisperers”! Romans 1:28: “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

The correct response to a brother or sister that sins is love, mercy, reconciliation and forgiveness. To do anything less, anything more, or anything different is to cut one's own throat. Jesus made a statement to all who would think themselves above the need to forgive, that removes all doubt on the subject. He said this  at the end of the Parable where a king forgave an incredible sum, and the one who was forgiven refused to forgive a fellow-servant: Matthew 18:33: “Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34  And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35  So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”

We also need to look at another important facet of forgiveness, and that is repeat offenders:
Do we impose a ceiling on how many times we can or should forgive an offending brother or sister? We read in Luke 17:3  Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4  And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
5  And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.”

Forgiveness does not come easy. Jesus said it must be more than mere words... it must be from the heart. Only then will God acknowledge a forgiving attitude. If He does not recognize whole-hearted forgiveness, He will not forgive us when we ask for it. If that does not scare the living daylights out of you, nothing will.

Matthew Henry comments: “Faith in God's pardoning mercy, will enable us to get over the greatest difficulties in the way of forgiving our brethren. As with God nothing is impossible, so all things are possible to him that can believe. Our Lord showed his disciples their need of deep humility. The Lord has such a property in every creature, as no man can have in another; he cannot be in debt to them for their services, nor do they deserve any return from him.”

In another place, Peter thought that he could max out forgiving offenses at the seventh offense, and was stunned to learn that he was wrong: We read in  Matthew 18:21  ¶Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22  Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”

T0 love our bothers and sisters in Christ, as God would have us love them, to forgive them from the heart, and to forgive on an unlimited basis, without counting the number of times, without seeking revenge, all the while being willing to suffer loss is not humanly possible. But it can and must be a part of our lives through, and only through, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And the Fruit of that Spirit, that makes it all possible, is found in Galatians 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

This concludes this evening's Discussion, “Conflict Among Christians, Part 1”
This Discussion was conducted “live” by Romans on June 5th, 2014